ptioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productis >> woodruff: goodvening, i'm judwoodruff. on theewshour this wednesday, we devote the program tohe life and dth of massachusetts senator ted kennedy. president obama called him "the greate senator of our me." we'll get personalemembrances from those who knewim well: utah senator orrin hatch, geoia congressman john lewis, columnist tom olipha and father gerry creedo

and an assessme of his legacy after almost half century in amican politics from newshour pabrod anicelletzfik,paick,eltzi plus heal policy analyst ron pollack. mar funding for thnewshour with jimehrer is provided by: >> what the world neednow is energy. th energy to get the economy humming again. the engy to tackle chaenges like clima change. what ishat energy came om an energy company? everyday, chevroinvests $62 million in people, in eas-- seeking, tching, building. fuelingrowth around the world to movus all ahead. this is theower of human engy. chevron.

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>> woodruff: nator edward kenedy, patriarch of america's best-known polital family, oftecalled the "liberal lion" of the senate, died at his he inhyannis port, massachusetts, last night aftebattling brain caer for a little more than a year. duing his 46 year tenure in washington, he pushed for legislation on educaon, poverty and alth care. today he was wily remembered as gifted leader and legislator. we begin our covage with the personal memories of one ohis osest friends in the senate republican orrinatch of utah. >> sator thank you very much for talking with us. >> so nice to b with you, judy. >> woodruff: what e you thking and feeling onhis day? >> naturally, i'm griefing. i knew ted was going to die but i pyed for him every day hoping for a mirle.

i chatted with his wi, vicki this rning and she course was broken up but she was very, very kind a nice as she really is. i'm goi tomiss that man. we-- we- i went backhere to fight tekennedy, and i think we fought each oth for all of my years, but when we got together, whewe got together people would s, "oh, gosh,f tho two can get tother nybody can," and they'd get out of the way. >> woodru: he was diagnosed with brain cancer a little or a year ago. how did he deal withhe journey hewent through? >> one of the tngs i admired mostbout ted is he never wimpered, never felt sorry for hielf, nev complained, never talked about it. he dealt with i beautifull i an, let's face it-- of corse he had the best heal care in e world, but i've g to say, it wasan extremely bad agnosis, and he knew aboutt, and he stillhad that sa sense of humor, at same gift of gab, same ability to trynd do thingsnd iust totally

respected him for the way h handled this illne. >> woouff: everybody wants to know, sator, how a conservative republican from utah could be good friendsith a liberal democra from massachuses. tell us how th worked. >> wll you might put that the other way-- how could a big liberal from massachetts be friendsith a conseative repubcan from democrat. he and i got in awful fights t floor, but wedeveloped a friendship, andyou know, when i first took er as the chairman of e labor and hum resours committee back in 1981 you know, i had weickerand stafford, republicans, on my committee, and theyere very liberal. so kennedy had the 9-7 eological edge, and i went to him and i sai "teddy, can't run this committe without y. i needour help." he said, orin, i will help you. there are certain things i can do, meaning the unis, et cetera, the basof the decratic party, and that's h the hatch-kennedy kennedy-hatch

relionship really began. that doesn't mn we didn't fight each other lot. but offer thoseights, knock-down, draout battles on the floor and in mmittee, we would reach out to each other and hug eachther and realize we represent differe spectms of the litical spectrum. how much--. >> woodruff: i was going to say--ou used the word "eological ." how much was an ideologue was he? >> he wathe leadi libal in the united states senate for all the years ive been in the senate-- i've been i there 33 years. and bar none he was t leader. and he h more control over the democrat party base than anybody else. he's the only one who could bring them alongon issues that were-- you know, th were down the middle, and reall bipartisan. but he could bring thealong. they woulhave to listen to him. and part that was because he led so many purly liberal battlesn the floor, lost a lot of them, but he also won a lot of the too. and, you know,e-- he just had-- and he had that

personality, tt infectious mor. i meanhe could defuse a situation with humor better than anybody i knew, and plus he was wiing-- once he made a dl th you, once he said,we're going to go withhisbill," and same with me, he lived up to it, ev when the democrats would bring amendments that he lovd and he really would have supported, he would vo them down because hhad made a deal, and that waone of the things i mot respected about him becaus he-- he kept his word. nd you know you cn't ask for more than that in the uted states senate. if they keep theirord, they can become great senators, and he was the greatest on their side far as i'm concern. and he s one of the all-time great as fars i think the wor isconcerned. >> woodrf: he carried that storyed keedy male with him wherever he we, that family th everybody knew,and yet he rried a lot of trady with hi some of it persal, some of that he broht on himself. how mh was that a part of the

ted kennedyou knew? >> well, let's face it-- he was a great representativef his family. he was a great son to his parents. he was a wonderful brothero his sisters and his brther. he was a geat surrogate father to his brothers' and ssters' children. he was really great father for his own chiren. ll three of them turned out very, ve well. a, you know, he did come throu some very ting times. but, you know you gotta give him a loof credit. he really chang his life. when he met vicki, she made a differencen his life. she was a great asseto him, and i have to say th-- that, you know, the many latt years of his life, he lived a very goodife. >> woodff: senator orrinatch republan of utah, thank you very much for talkingith us. >> nice to be with you. >> woodruff: and w, some more reacon from near and far. ray suarez has that.

>> suarez: at dawn, a le flag flew at ha staff atop the ited states capitol. in senator kennedy'office mementos oa life lived at the heights of american politi. and down pennsylvia avenue, the white hou flag was lowered, too,s news of kenneds passing spread through the capital and beyond a short time late from mart's vineyard just across nantucket sou from hyannisport he president spoke of the ma he called a collgue, counselor anfriend. >> the outpring of love, gratitude and fo memories to which we've all bne witness is a testamento the way this singular figuren american histortouched so many lives. his ideas and ideals a stamped on scores ofaws and reflected in millns of lives in seniors who know nedignity, in families at know new oppounity, in children who ow education's promise, and all who can pursue tir dream

in anmerica that is more equal and mo just, includingyself. he beca not only one of the greatest senators of our te, but one of the mostccomplished amerans ever to serve our democracy. his extraordinary life othis earth has co to an end. anxtraordinary good that he did lives on. for his family, he waa guardian. for america, was a defender a dream. >> suarez: in washingtonvice president bin recalled his sete colleague of more than 30 years. kennedy was long focal point of nional republican position. but while ning his friend's rocity, biden said he could disagree without bng disagreeable. >> d't you find it remarkable that one of the mostartisan, liberal n in the last century serving in the senate hado

many of his-- so many ofis foes embre him because they knohe made them bigger? he made them more gracef by theay in which he conducted himself. >> suar: one of those ocsional foes, republican saxby chambliss of geoia. >> senator kennedy was areat legislator and was privileged to have the oortunity to work with him on a number of occasions and whe we disagreed on a lot we alsogreed on a lot. >> suarez: tt sentiment was hoed by one of kennedy's newest colleagues, democr jim webb of virgia: >> we always tend during campaigns to go to thextremes in termof criticism you see in media but he was really wl- regarded here ross the aisle. enormous sse of humor and of

course was a legend here in terms of thlength of his service and the passiohe felt for so many issues. >> suarez: keedy had been abse from the senate during much of his illness. >> his spirihas been there dung all of these debates, and while he wasn't tre to cast votebelieve me his presence was felt. >> suarez: lg time friend and fellow senator chris dodd of connecticut took ukennedy's signate issue: healthcare. >> r me i lost my best friend in the senate, just great friend, s here many occasions right re in this river, and so it been a long year a year and 3 nths, but he died peacefully at about 11:30, i talkedo mrs. kennedy a little whi ago, and he fought like a lion this st year to staalive and to be ound. >> i think amo all the members of the u.s. senate and the congress of the united stes, he's been prminent.

>> suez: former president jimmy carter, the man kenny challenged in the 19 democric presidential primariessaid the senator's se-admitted personal demons and faults h held him back, eecially after the car wreck in969 that killed a campaign worker on chappaquidk island. >> he mo than made up for at after 1980 and the years he served before inhe senate, and afr the chappaquiddick even occred. and i think suffered from the consequences of it. he bore it like a man and he survived in the nds and hearts of the arican people. >> suarez: in boston, some those americans fered their thouts and condolences. martin levin grew up in boon. >> i remember meeting him high school and also visited myunior high back, 35 years ago. never forgetim, he has along lasting legacyand the state is

at a loss with hiuntimely passing. >> suare at the kennedy library, vitors signed a condolence book, anrecalled a storied life: dennis smore was visitingrom san diego. >> it a whole passing of a generation.7l he was, i guess tre is still another kennedy sibling o is alive, but the whole generion ofhe kennedy politicians are now gone. he was a truly remarkable man. all the kennedys we, the political kennedyshat we know of, john, robert, anted, and i think the country wl be less of a cntry from his passing. >> suarez: patricia ath brought her andchildren to the kennedy library today. i have a tremendous admiration f how going after tragedy, tragy, tragedy and he became the patriarch of that

family and tt's not an easy faly to be patriarch of, its o large anyway- but how beautifully he represeed it. somethg deep within, glue mabe called love that carried the day. >> suarez: senator edward ore kennedy ll lie in repose at the kennedy library thuday and friday. a feral mass will be held in boston on saturday. later that day, he wi be buried at arngton national cemery, across the potomac from washington, on the llside whereis brothers john and robert, and his sister-in-w jacqueline, we all laid to rest >> woodruff: we'll have much more on senator keedy's life and lecy later in the program. >> woodruff: in otherews oday, the lieutenant governo of south carolina aed

embattled repuican governor ma sanford to resign. in june, sford admitted to ving an extramarital affair with an argentine man. tod, andre bauer reaffirmed s pledge not to run for the republican nonation in next ar's governor's race if sanford agrees to stepown. at the statehouse in columa, sanford had th to say to bauer'request. >> i not going to be railroad out of this office by political oppents or folk that were never fa of mine in the first place or who-- to put it a difrent way-- a lo of what is ing on now is pure politics, pla and simple. >> woodruff: sanford inot eligible to n for governor agn because he can only serve two terms under soh carolina law. new u.s. economic da out today showed better-thaexpected receries in the manufacturing nd housing sectors. the commerce deptment reported durable goods posted tir largest increase in two yes, with orders up nearly 5% in july.

and there was a song gain in new home sas, up more than 5% last month. on wall street tay, stocks were only up ightly, in spite the solid economic reports. the dow jon industrial average gained four points to clo at 9543. the nasdaq ro less than one pot to close at 2024. in afghanistan,he u.s. military repoed two american troops were kied in separate atcks. one died when an imprised explosive device denated in the sout e other was killed in an attack in the east. so far in aust, 43 u.s. troops have been killed in afghanisn. the leadeof the largest and most poweul shiite party in iraq died day after a long battle with luncancer. abdul aziz al-hakim d been in iran uergoing treatment. the 59-year-old cleriwas instrumtal in shaping iraq aft the fall of saddam hussein.

his son his likely successor as partyeader, with just ve months to go before iraq' parliamentary eltions. dominic dun has tied. is son confired he died at home in manhattan todayof blaer cancer. dunne wro regurly for "vanity fair" magazine. he authed bestselng nove li "the two mrs. gvilles." dunne was 83 years d. >> woruff: now, more on senator edward kennedy. we beginith a look back at the life of the lassurviving brother of a onef-a-kind politicafamily. newshour correspondent kwame holman has thetory. >> i el that it is essential that we pvide a medical care prgram to meet the needs of ou senior and elder citizens.

>> holman:or nearly half a ntury senator edward kennedy was one of the nati's and his party' most prominent voices. the eight-term masshusetts democrat lent that eloquentnd fceful voice to many causes: civ rights, >> i'm not accusg the administraon of being respsible for racism in our the minimum wage, >> there ought to be a livab wage, and that iwhat this battles all about. if y work hard 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, y shouldn't live ipoverty and >>f you're going to turn around schools, you're gng to have to inst. >> holman: migration policy, >> the fact of the matter is some workers wilcome in here either illegally or legall one way or the oer, they're gointo come in. and at is where the temporary worker program comesn. >> holman: heal care, >> you dnot need a stethcope to diagnose the cause ofealth care cost inflatn. hospitals and doctorsharge too much. >> holman: indeed it was healthcare that keedy regarded as t cause of his life. just as polical debate on

capitol hill heated , he made the case for healthcare refm in "newsweek" mazine in july, witthe assistance of long-time friend pitical strategist bob shrum. ted was the yogest son of one of the naon's most-storied political families, lendary both for itservice and the agedies that befell it. two of his older brothe, president john. kennrey and senatorobert kennedy, were strucdown by assassins in the span of just five year he mourned robert at s patrick's cathedl in 1968: >> myrother need not be idealized, or larged in death beyond what he was in fe, to be remembed simply as a good and decent man, who w wrong and tried to rit it, saw suering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop . those of us who lovehim and who take him his rest today,

pray that whate was to us and what he wished for otrs will some dayome to pass for all the world. >> holman: tragy was followed bycandal that impacted both his private and polical lives. it was in 1969 that th senator's car plged off a bridge the massachusetrets island of chappaiddick. a young man riding with him, mary jo kopechne, drowned. he pleaded ilty to leaving the scene of an accident lie his brothers before him, ted kennedy, sought e white house. in 1979, he challenged t incumbent democr, president jimmcarter. but kennedy's campaign smbled from the start, when he emed unready for question from ror mudd of cbs. >> why do you want toe president? >> ll, i'm, uh, were i to make the announcement anrun, the

reans that i would run is that i have a great bief in this couny. that it is,here's more natural resources thaany nation in the world, there's the grtest educated pulation in the world, the greatest techlogy of any country ithe world, the greatest capaty for innovation in the world, and the gatest political stem in the world. and yet i see th at the current time that mt of the indtrial nations of the world are exceeding us in ter of productivity or doing betr thaus in terms of meeting the problems of inflatio >> holman: by the ne summer, his quesfor the presidency ended, in his most famous address to the 1980 mocratic conventi. for me, a few hours ago, th campaign came ton end. for all tho whose cares have been our conce, the work goes

on, thcause endures, the hope still lives, and t dream shall nevedie. ( cheers and applause ) >> holman: five years ter, he announcehe would never again seek the presidency and inead dedicate himlf to work in the senate. >> iave decided the best way to advance the values yound i share-- peace on aert, enomic growth at home, and compassionfor all americans is to be a united stes senator and not a candidatfor president the united states. >> holm: kennedy relished his senate role. 1987, he rushed to the amber to denounce the nomination of robert borto the supreme cot, minutes after esident reagan announced it. >>robert bork's america is a landn which women would be foced into back-alley abortions, blacks wld sit at seggated lunch counters, rogue lice could break down citizens' doors in midnht ids, schoolchildren could no

be taught about evolion, writers and artists would b censored at the whim o government, and the ors of the federal courts would be shutn the ngers of millions of citizens fowhom the judiciary is often the only prector of the individual ghts that are thheart of our democracy. >> holman: three months ter, bork's nominion failed. but e senator also was known as a csummate dealmaker, able to reach acss party lines to get things done. in 2002, he worked with preside george w. bush to initiate the major ecation refo known as "no child left behind." >> this leglation gives the assurance people of massachetts and across the cntry that we are going to have a well-qualifieteacher in every assroom in every school in america. that iwhat this legislation is about, too. ( applause ) >>olman: but when it came to the iraq war, kennedwas firmly in hisole as leader of the democrats' liberal wing.

two years aghe excoriated president bu for his troop surge plan, likening to the long and difficult experienc the u.s. had in etnam. >> echoes of that daster are all arnd us today. iraq is george bush's vietna as with vieam, the only rational solution tthe crisis is polical, not military. injecting more tros into a civil wais not the answer. our men and men in uniform cannot force the ira people to reconce their differences. thepen-ended commitment of our miliry forces continues to enable the iraqis to oid taking responsility for their n future. >> holman: kennedy achieved long-sought vtory in 2007, when congress finally approd aincrease in the minimum wage the first in a dade.

last year's presidential campaign, kennedy's rly decision to endorsbarack obama over longtime friend hillar linton, was a major boost to mr. obama. >> is a fighter who cares passiately about the causes he believes inwithout demonizing those who hold a different vw. ( cheers and applause ) he is tough-mindedbut he also has an uncommon capacityo appeal to the bett angels of our nare. >> later knedy collapsed in hyannis port, maschusetts, and was diagnosed withrain cancer. he returned to limed work in e senate that summer, including a vote the medicare bill,fter undergoing surgery. in january, he was on hanfor president oba's inauguration,

but suffered a seizure at th luncheon immedialy afterward. applause ) senator kennedyon a standing ovation in his last majorublic appearance in april, whe president obamsigned legislation he co-sponred to exnd the americorps volunteer program. this is a wonderful da ( applause ) or all of our country and al amerins who will now have a chae and the opportunity to give back ttheir communities nd the nation, the nation th we love so much.re >> lman: senator edward m. kennedy died at the nn edy compound in hyanniort, massachusett he was 77 years d. >> woodruff: we get se personal rlections now, from people who knew ted kennedy well. reprentative john lewis democrat from georgia he joins us from atlaa.

om oliphant cered fr the "boston gle" for four decades, and fher gerry creedon, pastor of st. charles bromeo catholic chch iarlington, virginia, a longtime family friends, father creedon wl be one of the celebrants at the senator funeral mass on saturda fher creedon, to you, first. what drove ted knnedy? >> well, ielieve he had a passion for peace, for justice, and i thi underneath, a deep convicti about values, about faith. and i think tat in sme ys is the wholehistory of ireland writtennto some of his hiory and his lues, a search for freom, a search for a better life. >> woodruff: what do you mean by that? >> well, first met him gong to church on sunday at st. luke's in mclean, and i would prech on pics like peace and

ustice-- particularly peace. while the congretion sometis disagreed, or slep, i'd meet tedafter mass and he'd continue to ta about the theme i was lking about, backing uphe principles of cholic social teh, the gospelhat i was address, wh specifics-- he was enaged and engaged i those value especially about peace. and remember the way he came out aut iraq in a prophetic way at the binning of the press cference henvited me to that moing. i uld see thepassion behind him, withhe peace, jtice, and nviolence. >woodruff: congressman louis, wt do you remember the mo? what was the connection you had with senator nnedyigot to know senator kendy right after he came tohe senate." i had met his brother, president kennedy, and his brother, robert kennedy, during the time he served as attorney gener. d i got to know thsenator very ll because as the father said, heas a champion for justice, for civil rights, for

voting rights. d i think it was rt of his makeup, partf his dna to get out there, to speak up, and t speak out. and hewould call me fromime to time,nd say, "hn, we're gng to do it. we're goingto push and pull together, and w're not going to give up until we get the bill passed, or get the votingights act passed," when i came to extending the voting rights ac e was there. will never forget on one occasio judy,he senate vot to extend the votinrights act in 2006, he inte me to be his guest on the sena floor, and after the sena passed the vote he inviteme into a little room off the senate floor a showed me the desk where present lyndon johon signed the voting rihts act on august 6, 1965. anhe had a picture mad and a few days ler he sent me a letter and a copyf that

photograph, andigned it. and iwill cherishthat forever. >> woodruff: i'm going t interrupt you a bring in tom oliphant, because you-- we jt heard john lewis talabout the spirit, a, yet, his was a life full of tragough, his own family, his brothers. w did he push throu that? >> you know, onef the aspects of senor kennedy they think has been least6q discussed inis lifetime d about whh people knewhe least was just alluded to byhe father, and at was his faith. i mean, he did not always have the best of retions with catholic ficialdom because of his personal life, and aso some ofhe issues that he championed but he was a vout believer. wish hi a llar for every mass i've been to th him on the ro when there s, like, nobody else except a drer. and i rememberne occasion-- it was the- gting toward the 20th anniversary of president

kennedy's murder, and heas makina national tour, a rathethan talking about president kennedy, he was talking about verty. and he broke off e morning i pretty sure it was in st. paul of minsota, a catholic town-- and went to a mass in t middle of t week and afterwards, i-- you know-- we all know about his fath sang you have the obligation-- weall know tat the secular call to service. but asked him where does this bid concern about poverty come from? and heooked at me like i was from mars. and he said, "have you never read the newestament?" laugh ( laughter ) and that was behind so muchf his litics. but he was e kind of litician who would not bri it u there was nothing evangelica about his potical behavi. >> woodruff: about h own faith. >>t was there, and no i think people--t's easier toeel free talking about it--.

>> woodruff: fath crdon, i keep ming back to this queion of so much disappointment. he wanted to be president. didn't make it. two brothers assassinated. so much tragedy in his own mily. what was iabout him that pushed tough that and ga him that sirit that hn lewis-- >> i summarize ity the word "generosity." i member celebrating mass in his home while he was ill with cancer around the parlor table, and whener we'd come to the partition, the pryer to t faithful, he never made a petition. he expressed thanks,--. >> woodruff: he never ask f anything. >> never asked for anything for himself b was thankf for what he saw arou him. and to havean attitu of gratude given his own circumstance, i thoht it was extraordinary. he was aenerous man. he ovcameobstacles. he forgave enemi. he didn't hold a grudge. was generous with the church.

he understood thate needed to have aommitmento the sancty of human life. and he in his own way, in a thousd different ways gave witness. >> woouff: john lewis conessman lewis, what lowed hito work acrosshe aisle with republins in a way that many of you fellow democrats haven't done? what was that all abou >> i think his make up, and i think it had a eat deal to do with his faith. he lived the gospel. he just didn't talk about it he didn' just preach a good sermon. he lived it. fathe you're so right-- he had the capacity to are, to give, and he felt that he was so bleed, d that he d a moral obligation you would hear him saover and over again that we have a mor obligation to do certa things. it's theight thing to do. it's th just thing to d and he did it wi passion and

he inspired l of us, and there was no one like senatorennedy. and, judy, i d't thk we're gointo be so lucky o so essed toee his likeness again any time soon. >> congressm lewis is alludi tone of the most important examplewhich have you're asking about him. thas extension of the voting rights act in the early 80s. kennedy alway had, you know, rt of the kennedyature is to be absolutely brutaly realistic about at you face, how high the hill is. tending that act with rgan as president,with a republican senat and wking control of theouse floor at that momt, by the way, that's mount eerest politically. ankennedy alwa understood yo can't do this without republican and here's wher the faith, i think, really is at work. when would go out and find it. and in this particular case one of the republicans he fnd was guy named bob dole, and the

result isomething that could have survived a reagan veto but it isn't do youant a post office in your state, or how do you twist your arm? he had this way of helping someby get to the position where they could s what was inolved and doing that with people who were by nature cservative took a sort of angelical spirit, even thugh always shiedway from any reference to god in hiwork. >> woodruff: what are y going to remember? i think iwill remember his humor. i'll remember the joye took i life. he lov to tase. he lovedo tease me. it wasfancy love of poetry, music. when seone sang, you better listen. he respected e song,e reported the singer, and that's all the work the imaginaton which think is atlid faith willing to see possibiliti. and i rememberarticularly the last mass hi with him, and he talked abou saint sbar--.

>>woodruff: when was tha >> that was probay in march or april he-- before he moved back to the cape. and he tol his children, well, no, in masses we lened a lot out sinbar, and he said who is this sinbar an he sai bobby cald his son, sinbar. he told the stry o sinr, a patron int of the environment, thehurch st. sinbar. the cathedral t sinbar. th river lee washed on the shores,an see the imagition. and he said i don't know what we leard about the gospel. we learned about sinbar. fancy and love for poet and legenand i think that was all part mag that he could bdge gaps.

>> woodruff: fher gerry crdon, tom olipha, representativeohn lewis, thank u all three. >> woodruff: no a look back at nator ted kennedy's legislative and political cord and to gwen ill. >> ifil after nearly five decad of service in the u.s. senat senator kennedy left his handprints all over the naon's laws. republicanand democrats agree his legacy is a remarkablene. we're joined noby four who watched or worked with senor kennedy ov the years: newshour relars mark shields and david brooks; unirsity of new hampire history professor ellen fitzpatrick; anron ollack, the executive direct of families usa, a heal care advocacy gup. so, mark, his lislative record ich we've been hearing about so much tonight i a bibyroduct of vision or simple longevity? it was a lot more than longevi. we've had senators ser not as long not many as long as he did but we've had people with

grear seniority. whatt was wasan iredible ability,hich has been touched on inhe early discussions he never demoned the other side, a colleague across th aisle. they always view today's adversy as tomorrow's tential ally. and it w a gift, and whener he stood i the senate press gallery and watcd him go on the floor, i don't care when was, oer senators would flock to him, a he always had personal note for eac of them, and heave a god-tured needle it was a remarkble ability to beat the same time someone you always kn where he stood on the issues and ere whathe stood for, yet, at the same time he was the one who could establish comomise and consensus. it wasn't just tranctional tried to find the midle ground. it was an iredible gift, and he was a gifted, gifted legislator. >> ifill: and yet, david, as orn hatch alluded to early ehe was liberal to the bone. at any point during his career did that liberalism bin to go

out ofashion? >> at every pointn his career, almost. yo think about some of his major speechs 1995, nt gingrich has just taken over. he ges a speec reaiming the flag. jimmy carter is presint. he inks jimmy carter is leaning more toward theenter and he planted the flag. what he hadas not only the firm principles buthe craftsmanshi being a senators a craft. it's a job. iyou ask senars who were the best at i, they would all say him. and it was a form of intelligence. i used to interview h, and i remember the las interview i had th him ybe more than a yeaago now, asked him about liberalism, and his answe were fine. th were fine. but i asked him about an arcane piece of the imigration bill which he'd done with joh mccain and he was talking abo subsectn 16, photograph c. he had a phenomenal memo and intelligence f that kind of stuff, and auy who grew up in this charismatic mily and could have skated on all that

to have discoved this capacity r deal making, that's whing he found himself. >> ifill: ellenitzpatrick, how about that? did the contrt on the desire or the abity to skate through onharisma and the kennedy name nd the nuts and bolts side, which won out most of th time? >> i think the two actually worked tether entirely. and whas remarkable about ted kennedys that for a 50-- aost a 50-ar period a half a cetury, he ovided a very visible reminderf a kind of liberal ealism that firstame to the forewith the electionf his brother in 19, and that was kept alive after his brother's assassination, with the candidacy of robert keedy in 19, and that ted kenny himself en carried through in the ensuing yrs. there's a kind of continuity to the story, and is one that is intertwined wit that of the

tion itself over almost a 50-year period, whether liberalism was in or out o shion,he idea was to use the wer of the federal governmen assist those most in need, to ensure th all amerans had a decent stdard of living, decent health care lrngs acstes to education, to a good j, and to a clea envinment will be. ttheir most fuamental rights. thinabout the fact when t kennedy gan his senatorial caree worked first on legislation toet rid of the poll tax, and lived to see barackbama elected as the first african american esident, sometng that never could have happened had they not gotten rid of the poll tax and segregation itsf. the two are total intertwid inmy view. >> ifill: how about t health care piecef this, ronpollack. ou worked closely wi him on

gettg universal health care coverage and it is somethi he going to his grave without having quite achieved,utow essential was it towho he was? > this was really the cause of his lifetime. he cared so passionately aut reforming america'sealth care system. he accomplished great deal in the senate, but he looked forward to rely getng high-quality,ffordable health re for everyone. i rember the last time i saw him was at the white hous summit on health ca reform, and nobody expected him to come. president obama me i, and the senator camin, and the elecicity in thatoom was just sometng you've ner experienced befor everyone jusgot upnd, you know, peoplejust could not stop applaudin and he inspired so ny people in the congress, outside of the

congress, on heal care reform and he accomplish a great deal often aoss the aie. one of his greatesvictories was the enact of the children's health insurance prram, which heosponsoredith orrin hatch. and is that legislation wapart of a budget bill. no these budget brilz design to reduce spenng, and he was able t get a new progra in 1997, in a republican coness, adopted,ne ofis major accomplishments. >> ifill: if he habeen part of thergument of the debate in the last year, an active part, physically on the ll, do you think we'd be in a different place on the health careebate? >> it's ve hard to say. i an, he acally played a ery active role in the months prior to his death he stt around august, september, he asked hi staff to creata thing that we affectionely called the "wo

horse group." we met tice week. anit was the insuran industry,he pharmaceutical industry, the hospitals, the physicians, labor, busess. an we met fwor hours almost each meeting, and. so he actuly was tryingto achieve sometng that was bipaisan. i'm not surhether the republican leadership felt connced that it was in their interest to aow health rform to pass, and i don'tnow whher the senator couldave overcome that. >> ill:on pollack cat say the answ. i can. i'llisk it. we would be in a diffent ace. i mean, ted kennedy broughtto it notnly the gifts we've talked aut. but the understanding ofhe iss, the history, the history people invoed. he knew. -- it's unthinkale to me that en with the staunchest republican opposition and th nclusion in many parts the

republican party that it wasn their interest to sotage and submarine the obama health plan, he wod have figuredut a way tget a couple of the republicans. and mike dewine, the former reblican congressman from ohio said-- congressman senator, lieutenant goveor-- said to bill hershy of the "dly news" he was theast person you wantedo see on the other side and the first person you wanted to have on your side aight. i really think that-- that sums it up. and i mean no cricism of the people whore there, but it was an empty plagainst the sky without ted kendy in this health care. ifill: david, overhe coue of his career, how mch did his family gacy shape his course, an how much did his own personal foiblesimit that? >> obvisly, quite a lot. he wa a very competive family. he lt the burdenf following in his brothers' footsteps. one point in his life he wanted to ve out to newmexico

and run from there. t his fath said, o, you run in maschusetts. i have a seat for you right here." he never qte broke ay. but on t other hand,the family legacyings-- legacy of service was core who who was. the other thing i think-- and ths goes to the debate about health care-- i not sure it would be at different. i tnk he was a great legislor as i said. but he, more than his brothers, rlly, was pretty much a mo classic liberal had muchore unproblematifaith in goernment than they did, and so more unproblematicaith in governme than most of the american people had. that was why the liberalsm he esproused and chpioned has remained more or le a majority position the country. that's somewhat a lega of the kennedys. >> ifill: how about th, ellen? what about the legacy othe keedys? how much othis is just about the lure of the kenned name, and how much of thi is about edwd m. kenne as an invidual? >> i thi, again, it's both,

gwen. is not simply matter that was a more classically lib senator than his brothersere. his others lived in an enrely differentolitical cultu than ted knnedy did. that is, ey didn' have to face many of the issues that h had to take a stand on, issues like aborti rights, issues like the men's movement, which esident kennedy in fact did have a commissionn women's stat, but the women's movemen came late in this story. thre are many- gay liberation-- many of e issues that theemocratic party has struggled with, d kennedy had to ake out positions, liberalism facin these isss. his brhers neverdealt with any of that. nor didhey deal with a political cture that showed absolutely irreverence r politicafigures and tha put theirrivaterk les under extraordinary scrutiny.

so'm not sure thate was more classical liberal. he chaed over time. he evolve his ideas evolved, but he remaid a source and a very viblg on he looked ke his brothers. heounded like his brothers. invoked his brothers. but y? or acore set of beliefs and values, ideas about the nation that hebrought through 50-year period in arican story, and it's really quite an extraordina sty. >> ifl: mark and david, final thouts on the passing of edward m. kennedy and the kind of void he's goingo leave. >> well,e leaes-- he leaves a legacy of bipartisanship in e senate, a senate wich it fra and fractured. and it's an ability to stand firmly for what you believe, and at the same time, to se

in those with whom you dagree humanity and e capacity for coromise, and for consensus. if senators were ill livin there anstill working the be inspireby that example and gacy of t kennedy, then the shoulde well serd, it as has been by his 47 years in public life. >> i would just say he could exercise grea anger whene disapproved, but it wa not reentment, so it neer got quite asersonal. and for conservates who are now in thewilderness, that is a modelor them to find t best in yourradition and to follow it the way he followed liberalism during theeagan yrs. >> ill: ellen fitatrick of the universityf new hampshire, david brooks, mark shield, can po, thank you all very muc >> thank y, gwen. >> woodruff: finally tight, rememberinthe kennedy cadence. whether it was presidenjohn f. kennedy deliveng his inaugural 1961...

>> wshall pay any price, bear any burden, meet y hardship, support any friend, pose any fo in order to assure the survival and thsuccess of libert >> woruff: ...or senator robert f. kennedy announci his candidacy for the presidencyn 1968... >> i run to seek new polies, policies to end theloodshed in vietnam and in our cities policieto close the gaps that now exist betwn black and white, between rich and poor, beween young and old in this country and around the rest the world. >> woodruff: ted nnedy shared withis siblings an unstakable vce... >> there are questio not yet asked, wting for us in the recesses of the future

>> woodruff: ...a cadence roed in new englandhat was used to inspire his supporters athe 1980 democrac party conventi. > there will be setbacks and sacrifices in the ars ahead; but i convinced that we as a people are ready toive something back to our couny in return for all it h given to us. ( applse ) woodruff: ...a cadence tha often enraged his politic opponents, and somemes addressed thpersonal demons he battled. >> i recognize my own shortcomings, theaults in the conduct of private life. i reaze that i alone am responsible for them, and im he one who must confront the >> woodrf: one family friend and advir today argued that whathe kennedys said was more important than the way in whh they said it. ted sorensen was presiden kenny's special counsel, wrote speeches for ted kendy and

advised althree kennedy brhers. >> wee lost one of the most powerful rhetorical voic of our time. articulate and eloquentoice of justice, peace, uerstanding, his voice will be sory missed, no one else who has qte matched it. >> and this noveer the torch will be passed again to aew generation of amecans,for bara obama and for and you for me, our country will be committed to his cae. the wor begs anew. the hope rises agai, a the dream liv on. ( chrs and applause )no

>> woodff: again, the other major developments of the y: governor mark sford of south calina refused to resign at the request of his lutenant governorandre bauer. bauer said issues surrnding sanford's fair with an argentineoman are clouding legislative issues. and e u.s. military reported two american soldiers were killed in afghanian, bringing the ll for august to 43. the's much more about senator kennedy on our web se newshour.pbs.o you can find a timeline ofis life including kelegislative accomplhments, watch interviews he did with the neshour, and see ads from his early cpaigns for the senate. plus, there's a link an american experience documenry about the kenny family. we'll see u on-line, and again

here tomorrow evening, i'mudy woodruff, thk you and good nit. major funding for the wshour with jim lrer is provided by: chevn. intel. supporting math and scnce education fotomorrow's innovars. and with the ooing support of ese institutions and foundations.

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